Something is amiss in TF2 trading land. Suddenly sellers prices for B.M.O.C. and Ebeneezer have jumped. While the last price for B.M.O.C. of around 6 keys was semi-stable, all of the sudden people began asking buds for them. Our contributors witnessed several trades for higher prices, of '10 keys', 'white painted Bills hat', and '2 Ebeneezers + key+ craft hat' and we based the bid or lower range of our prices on these trades. However, just to be sure we will take the price down until this shakes out. When the supply of these items is taken into account, a case can be made for a price higher than 6 keys. However, a jump from this price to buds does not happen overnight. Sites such as TF2TP and TF2outpost have many 'pie-in-the-sky' prices and we suggest you look around before buying such items.
update: We all agreed that taking the price down for Ebeneezer & BMOC was the right thing to do. This manipulation was organized and we will be all over these jumps in price from this time forward. Our new policy is that if any item (excluding newly released) has a sudden move up or down in price for anything that looks suspicious (around 50% or more) we will do close to what the real stock market does: take a breather, follow the activity but keep the same price for as long as it takes to determine if the move is real or not.
Thanks to ConfusedCactus for alerting us.
(final) update to the update: Lots of comments flowing in, and while any discussion regarding the hats and the issue here is welcome, hearsay like "I sold my BMOC for XX!" is not useful and will get you nowhere. In fact, from the comments coming in it is clear that there is a concerted effort to push the price of these items higher. Price comes from what real people pay in real items. We will not put up a price until we get clear evidence of what these two hats are worth, however long that takes and we are not in a rush.
I think a price over 6 keys is reasonable, probably it should stay at the 10 keys range(above 1 Bud would be pretty crazy in my honest opinion). Even if I don't own a BMOC/Ebenezer(v. Bill's owner right here), I'd say by the way it was obtainable and by the amount of the hats in comparison to the Bill's Hat, it should just stay at the price of a Bill's Hat or probably 1-2 keys more than that. Couldn't imagine it being more than 1x Earbuds, unless a small number were crafted/achieved during the Christmas event. But it probably would be reasonable that they are more than just 4/6 keys, considering the amount difference between the BMOC/Ebenezer and the Bill's Hat. But that's just my opinion.
ReplyDeletesold a pink ebenezer for genuine maul btw. but why there are so many guys hating this prices?
ReplyDeletethat are pretty nice and rare promo hats , so why they dont accept the new prices ?
ploba: its not what's reasonable that is something's price, the price is what most people are willing to pay. There's always outliers (who charge buds, or want to pay with a scrap) but those aren't the price.
ReplyDeleteb.m.o.c goes not more than 6-7 ebeneser lower, and pls spreedsheet make normal price,some crazy sell it for max head and say spreesdsheet go up price, so people are confused
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, the item's usefulness is a large part of the price. And the usefulness of a hat is how good it looks, both in the opinion of the buyer and in the opinion of the majority of the community. And the BMOC/Ebenezer don't look nearly as good as Bill's. So I don't expect them to reach the same price.
ReplyDeleteAlso, here's a link to the group that's organizing the price manipulation: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ebenbmocbs
I agree with the new prices, it is a promo hat. and I think it's better than Bill.
ReplyDeleteI think the price is much as people selling.
ReplyDeleteIf everybody selling something for 10 max, the price will be 10 max. And there is always someone who wanted to buy a BMOC and he gonna to pay this price.
If people sellig for 1 scrap, the price have to be 1 scrap.
No the price is generally halfway between how much people are buying, and how much people are selling, you're example of selling something for a scrap is flawed because a scrap is the lowest form of payment possible.
DeleteWhen you get an alt and trade with yourself a bunch of times on different servers (all while constantly changing your name), its easy to drive up a price.
DeleteServers never give a list of all the players, making it hard for anyone to track to see if these trades are done by the same 2 accounts. This sure does it easy for 1 man to create some nice profit for himself. >:P
I think the price is much as people selling.
ReplyDeleteIf everybody selling something for 10 max, the price will be 10 max. And there is always someone who wants to buy a BMOC and he gonna to pay this price.
If people sellig for 1 scrap, the price have to be 1 scrap.
If I understand well, when the price of the market doesn't please the spreadsheet, the spreadsheet stops informing the traders. Are you really serving the tf2 traders, or are you trying to determine the market ? Honestly, what's your goal,your motivations, who are you spreadsheet ? (no offense)
ReplyDeletethe price on s grenade hasn't gone up since the last time I said something. The crate goes for 1.33 its self and its not like it's becoming less rare. Also I sell s sticky for 5 ref within the same day of unboxing. I expect this price not to rise because of the strange festive version. However there is only one way to get a strange grenade! Its only getting harder to find!
ReplyDeleteexchangepls: we are going to watch the BMOC and Ebeneezer trading and see what the real price is. That is why it is blank.
ReplyDeleteVercinger: thanks for the information. We will see what the community ends up pricing these hats at. A few people can have an effect but over the long term the true price will come out.
lvbubi: no, that isn't how it works. A price is when a buyer/seller exchange items, not where people ask prices exclusively or where people bid on items exclusively.
Oncle: we stopped listing bmoc/ebeneezers temporarily until the real price of those items is evident. Since there was potential manipulation by a =n organized group we wanted to be certain of the actual buying/selling of these two items.
rags: it is possible the price for the s. grenade launcher has stayed the same for quite some time, as there seems to have been an equilibrium for it. We will check into it again.
ReplyDeleteHey Admin, will the price of the crate 30 goes up or is going to be same as crate 40??? :P
ReplyDeleteHaha haters gonna hate.
ReplyDeleteOn a serious note why is a max head 2.5 buds? It aint pretty anyway. BMOC looks much cooler xmas or not. Most people here are raging coz they didnt buy BMOC/ebe when they were dirt cheap and now feel left out.
Hey if you know history when buds and bills came out they were only worth few refined and it took some time to be established as currency. Same with max head. Who knew preordering a ♥♥♥♥ty game would give an item that was once 7 buds and is still high at 2.5 (dupe scandal etc).
Stats wise BMOC and Ebe are around 2500 each so they are limited and will never come into game. Valve introduced them so they new players can use them as currency instead having to shell out $$ for buds hoarders. A lot of people raging here are buds/bills owners who do not want the established order to change.
But don't worry as with all rare promos, this one will rise too so even if the price falls right now, it'd be good for you to invest in it and buy unusuals later as more and more are unboxed and buds/bills wont be sufficient currency
Admin: thanks for the details, it make sense. Keep up the good work ;).
ReplyDeletegrrr i dont like the word manipulation :O and im too lazy to explain how the situation came
ReplyDeleteOff topic here, but the Nine-Pipe Problem may need a check. There's no way it could stay that price for this long.
ReplyDeleteListen.
ReplyDeleteI think the BMOC and Ebenezer are both rarer hats then Bill's. Therefore I am one of the traders asking more than the spreadsheet price for these hats. Im a happy owner of 2 BMOC's and 12 ebenezers. I think they should go up in price because they are promos and quite rare.
I think a price around 1 buds is too high, but around 16 keys for BMOC and 10 keys for Ebenezer sounds very reasonable. Therefore I hope spreadsheet will not update the prices to 1 buds and stuff, but to reasonable prices like u put up above.
Sincerely,
[WCMF] 420 Smoke Haze
You should update the price of the Houwar, it has risen in price
ReplyDeleteWanted to get you all a fact clear:
ReplyDeleteB.M.O.C. and Ebenezers aren't strange or limited AT ALL, they where FREE, anyone could grab one, all russian script kiddies made 3.000 ghost accounts and got hundreds of those, holiday headcase has a ENOUGH high price, so they don't care at all.
In resume, the "Boycotters" are russian script kiddies who did a thousand of ghost accounts on the xmas event, got hundreds of those hats, and now wants to get EVEN MORE profit.
Nothing preventing said script kiddies to scam another item. Would you be happy if they decided to do that with your backpack? No, obviously. Why should we have someone lose in the situation, when we can give those who bought the hats a chance to minimise loss? Besides, many more people have bills than they have Ebenezers or BMOCs.
DeleteNo demand + value increased = price manipulation, it's quite simple.
ReplyDeleteThere was no demand for Bmoc and Ebenezer and we're in april, it's 8 months from Christmas and its themed hats.
I suggest the admin to pay attention because fake trades are happening. For example I own a Bmoc and I can but it myself for 10 buds.
This is written by a smart man. I totally agree with him: forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2641729
ReplyDeletenice try lvbubi, do not confuse anyone here, open eyes, this what real happens.
ReplyDeletehttp://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2640611
My thoughts on all this:
ReplyDeleteHats aren't necassarily priced based on rarity. If that was true, the Gym Rat would be worth a Bill's. Hats are judged based on established history, as well as how good the hat looks. HOUWAR is worth a lot because its an epic octopus hat thing, that someone had to buy 27 or so games, and get achivements in. And the name is pretty awesome as well. Ebenzer is ugly looking, and deserves the low price it has. Notice how when the conquistador was released, its price almost immediately sunk, because its an ugly hat. But when the Fast Learner was released, it held its value because its a nice looking misc. I know I'm kind of dragging on, but I just wanted to get some points across.
But if you remember, the holiday hats were all fairly difficult to obtain. They were in no way free, as to do the achievements to get a prize you had to have bought SOMETHING on the account to begin with, and even if you did all the achievements it wasn't a guarantee. All I wanted was a BMOC for Christmas and the steam gods said no, fu. I don't care if you did all the achievements but like 4 and crafted all the coal you got and furthermore bought more coal and crafted that too. You get nothing. Not even an Ebenezer. Hell, you can't even have games as a consolation prize. Here, have some valve coupons. The BMOC really is a sexy looking hat. It looks nice on every class and paints well, too. It was a crime for it to have been only 5 keys to begin with.
ReplyDeleteObviously some people think the prices of items has gone up due to a lucky sale, such as getting 2-3 more refined than its actual worth compared to the spreadsheet and ask for the prices to be raised on the spreadsheet.
ReplyDeleteWhat people need to understand is that the spreadsheet is a guideline not the exact price.
@WCMF
Just because you owe a high amount of those hats, doesn't necessary mean that the price should be raised. I'm sure the prices will go up, but don't place some ridiculously high price, and plus the market is just recovering from the bud price crash and I'm sure the prices of those items will stabilise very soon.
Guys, there is A LOT more going on here than people are seeing. You are all being played and you don't even know it. Don't be fooled.
ReplyDeleteThis post here gets at a part of the true story, but misses the most important part. But it is a nice intro to understanding the background and why the prices are changing.
http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/s0l6m/psa_people_are_manipulating_bmoc_and_ebenezer/
But the truth you're all missing is that there are really TWO different groups trying to control the market price for Christmas hats by unfair methods
One group wants to push the prices UP. I'll call them Pro-Xmas group. To try to get prices rising they demanded insanely high buyout prices for their BMOCs and Ebenezers of 2 or even 3 buds. There are about 10 of them doing this. These people are fools because nobody was ever going to pay those prices. So their 'strategy' for raising prices was basically to refuse to sell the things they wanted to sell... yeah right, really. So you can see youre dealing with a bunch of total genius market manipulators here...
The other group wants to push the prices DOWN. Let's call them the Anti-Xmas group. They're alot smarter than the first group of guys, because they understand that if they want to control prices, the first thing they got to do is control everyone's perception of reality.
First they claimed they had discovered the 'secret' plan of the so called 'price manipulators' in the Pro-Xmas group. (Except it wasn't really secret because it was all posted in a public discussion where anyone could read it for months, and the members of the group all talked right out in public about what they were doing, and everyone laughed at them. And the alleged 'price manipulators' were clueless morons who probably couldn't even manipulate their own dicks).
Next the Anti-Xmas group members posted as many trades as they could, offering to buy those hats at very low prices. To create the impression that was still the standard market price. Finally they spammed the forum and every other trade for the hats with comments claiming that all the buyers and sellers were faking their prices to manipulate the market. It was done to scare away buyers. Just take a look at all their posts ALL over TF2oupost.com and you'll understand how clever they are at this, how much effort theyre putting in. All in all, it's been a very successful campaign of misinformation that has actually fooled many people
haha thanks ConfusedCactus for sharing propaganda.
ReplyDelete@gu1ru : your theorie sucks ..
that is how it worked for me:
(based on ebenezers)
i found a bmoc in te holidays andmade big profit selling it for high prices again and again on holiday (btw im not russian).
some time ago i checked tf2stats and was surprised to see the ebenezer as one of the rarest promo hats. bought 13 of them for cash and items. i wanted to have a full collection (30 different painted ebenezers) to sell i for a nice milkman unusual.than i found the boycotters group (it had only 6 members). they cried about the sinking prices and so on. i told them to buy the wintr promos as long they were cheap. i did not suspect hat the price will rise so fast, so i stopped buying them and concetrate on other things (like buying lv 42 vintages for spreadsheet price and selling them 3-4x higher). i really wanted the milkman unusual and told every one that the ebenezer got huge potential. the group members started to buy them (expecting price increasing) and it was hard for me to find a ebenezer withut c/o, so i paid more than others. and that is what increased the price. no fake offers. lots of desperate guys hoping to get an ebenezer as long as they are cheap.
its a fact that the majority of the guys offering on ebenezers were in the group, but there were no fake offers! all members wanted to have them. that is a demand of at least 150 people. and then other people thought that it will be like with the s f weapons and the price will really increase ip to buds, they bought winter promos too.
now where is the manipulation??
manipulation and propaganda comes from the all haters and jellyfishes.
- ploba or "koka_love WTFISH?"
I usually don't involve myself in these kinds of discussions but....
ReplyDeleteI think by now everyone has realized that this spreadsheet, weather we like it or not, dictates for the most part, a rough estimate how much items are worth in TF2. That being said, the BMOC scandal needs to be properly analyzed before any more rash trading decisions are made.
Despite the fact that the price was manipulated, the group that had organized together to inflate prices did sell a limited amount of truth about the BMOC. This was simply that it much less prevalent, percentage-wise, then compared to buds and bills.
But then we have to ask, does rarity of an item dictate the value of an item?
For the most part, the trading community as already proved that this is FALSE. If this were true, and determined the value of items, then a v. Concheror would be worth an immense amount of money. The real factor in determining the price of an item, aside from how rare it is or how its aesthetics look, is based on seller to seller and the value of that item to the seller. That being said, the aforementioned aspects do play a minor role in the value of an item. Personally, I see them falling right underneath a bills. In terms of its aesthetics, the hat certainly has its limitations (looks great on some classes, horrible on others) AND its a seasonal hat, meaning that the only time it really works and feels right is winter/Christmas. Any other time of the year it just feels disjointed (who immediately thinks of Santa hats in the middle of a blazing summer day?) With those two points, i feel as if bills, aesthetically, works better than the BMOC
This is also just me thinking out loud (im very open to discussion about this too) do you think the people who tried to manipulate the prices should be punished, and furthermore, should the price of the BMOC be dropped so that it can be made as an example of what happens when people try to manipulate prices? The TF2 community by now is well aware of what's going on, and the BMOC is definitely gonna get a bad reputation for everything that's happened, do you think that should play into how much it's worth? This is all just food for thought.
I agree with others who think the only reason the BMOC being 10 keys is a problem is because people didn't jump on it faster. I got one from the actual event and 1 that I bought for 3ref. I have every intention to sell the second at 10 keys.
ReplyDeleteThere is what 2500 of them? The price should reflect that. 6 keys doesn't reflect that.
This market isn't based on what people want to pay, it's based on what they are going to pay. Some one is going to pay me 10keys. I don't care if they want to pay 6.
I still think the Bills needs to be dropped own to 5-6 keys. I literally don't know anyone who doesn't have at least one. I know 2 people who have a BMOC.
Also I do not agree with the high value of the "Holiday Headcase" which is part of the same promo BMOC.
ReplyDeleteI support elevating the value of BMOC.
Or devalue the Holiday Headcase also
Hannibal: there are similarly very high asking prices for holiday headcase as there were for BMOC/Ebeneezer. Our estimate is unchanged and still 3 buds on the top end.
ReplyDeleteJust a fictional example: there's in the market 10000 Scatterguns and 1000 Force-A-Nature (FAN). Let's give some facts:
ReplyDelete-> Scattergun is more used than FAN.
-> Scattergun looks better than FAN.
-> There are 200.000 people that want a Scattergun.
-> There are 5.000 people that want a FAN.
Conclusion: prices are adjusted according demand, not rarity.
Nice words from spreadsheet guys... But still the price is empty!
ReplyDeleteWhy u didnt put 5-6 keys price again?
I own a BMOC and even I think the price increase is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteSo what if it's rare? Plenty of in-game items are rare, they're not all worth the moon and the stars.
Theres a huge amount of contraversy over
ReplyDeleteBMOCs at the moment, theres been a group of
people hoarding, trying to put the price up, and
fake trades with other mischeif to the point that
Spreadsheet has taken down there pricing
guide.
But heres the Reality.
BMOCs are not worth 6 keys
BMOCs are worth What People Are Willing To
Pay For Them.
You can say that the price SHOULD be 6 keys
but what does "should " have to do with the
price?
Its SUPPLY and DEMAND
Unfortunately the price is controlled by
whatever the people with BMOCs will let them
go for but there are logical reasons why the
BMOCs are worth a lot.
Lets look at the facts
-BMOCs are all class (Like Bills)
-BMOCs are paintable and paint very well (like
Bills)
-BMOCs are owned by 1.8% (Bills more 12%)
So there is almost 7 TIMES as many Bills as
BMOCs and BMOC look almost as good as Bills
(Though I admit that is very subjective)
IN CONLCUSION I don't agree with this
hoarding and fake trade stuff but THE REALITY
IS that BMOCs are rarer than both Buds and
Bills so logically should be worth more than a
Bills (not neccesarily worth a buds though)
If anyones wondering I own a single BMOC
painted gold which all my classes wear.
I bought it for a White Bills
I Would sell it for a nice painted Bills + 2-4 keys
depending on the Bills
TL : DR version. BMOC nice paintable all class,
very rare, price go up.
Theres a huge amount of contraversy over
ReplyDeleteBMOCs at the moment, theres been a group of
people hoarding, trying to put the price up, and
fake trades with other mischeif to the point that
Spreadsheet has taken down there pricing
guide.
But heres the Reality.
BMOCs are not worth 6 keys
BMOCs are worth What People Are Willing To
Pay For Them.
You can say that the price SHOULD be 6 keys
but what does "should " have to do with the
price?
Its SUPPLY and DEMAND
Unfortunately the price is controlled by
whatever the people with BMOCs will let them
go for but there are logical reasons why the
BMOCs are worth a lot.
Lets look at the facts
-BMOCs are all class (Like Bills)
-BMOCs are paintable and paint very well (like
Bills)
-BMOCs are owned by 1.8% (Bills more 12%)
So there is almost 7 TIMES as many Bills as
BMOCs and BMOC look almost as good as Bills
(Though I admit that is very subjective)
IN CONLCUSION I don't agree with this
hoarding and fake trade stuff but THE REALITY
IS that BMOCs are rarer than both Buds and
Bills so logically should be worth more than a
Bills (not neccesarily worth a buds though)
If anyones wondering I own a single BMOC
painted gold which all my classes wear.
I bought it for a White Bills
I Would sell it for a nice painted Bills + 2-4 keys
depending on the Bills
TL : DR version. BMOC nice paintable all class,
very rare, price go up.
Yay, I'm on the spreadsheet page. Does this make me famous?
ReplyDeleteas a comment to your update: I think that the only thing that is stopping the two hats from rising is spreadsheet has taken it down. not allowing anyone to see that it IS WORTH a lot. i seriously blame spreadsheet for extreme drops in prices for most items. since spreadsheet stopped posting these items no one knows what they are worth. i suggest if something like this happenes again just gradually increase the price. dont just say its a scam and let it sort its self out.
ReplyDeleteA clean explanation of what happened with the prices of these items:
ReplyDeletehttp://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2640611
I'm more than happy with Ebenezers being worth a buds each, and BMOCs having a price of 1.5 buds. I think that is an extremely reasonable price for these hats, 'cause there are no others like them. There are genuines and vintages, as well as promos, but there were previously no major Christmas hats.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how you can buy a game for $30 and receive and item which eventually becomes worth over $100. I don't own either an Ebenezer or a BMOC, nor do I own any items worth that much. I am a fan of having a couple hats and stranges for each class, and, I've been offered Buds for all my items. The TF2 economy relies on change, or if there is no change the economy will crumble.
All of you people who are hating these new prices are jealous of those who got these hats while they were cheap. The people who bought them while they were cheap "invested" in a lottery ticket. They won. You are jealous because someone with 100 hours on TF2 is wealthier than you, who has played over 1000 hours. Getting angry is both silly and immature, really. Do you see someone win a $20,000,000 lottery and start complaining that it wasn't fair? If you do, get a life, and be happy for them.
I know I'm happy for those lucky guys who got these hats, you all should be too. If you're angry because some people made hundreds of accounts and got plenty of these items, you're an idiot. They siezed an oppurtunity. There was nothing but yourself and your wallet stopping you from doing the same.
As an owner of an Ebenezer, all I have to say is this : Rarity does not equal Value.
ReplyDeleteJust because an item is rare, that does not mean that it will have a high demand. After going on to many trades and sifting through comments, all I'm seeing is people arguing over the "facts". Honestly, whether or not you think either the Ebenezer or the BMOC looks better or worse compared to a bills, max head or on its own is YOUR OPINION. That isn't a valid reason to raise the price. Also, take into account that they are Winter Holiday hats and we are nearing Summer, the demand for these hats is bound to(not saying it necessarily will) go down. It's unreasonable to raise the price at this time. But keep in mind when the Holidays do come back around, the demand will most likely increase because in the end, they are Seasonal Themed hats.
On another note, BMOC's are Santa Hats; perfect for Winter holidays. There really isn't another hat that could fit so well for that time period, so chances are that Valve may release more this year, thus making the rarity of it decrease (only an assumption).
My final point is that, if these hats were to increase in value, it should solely be based on the fact that they are in high demand. At this point in time, a jump from a few keys to Buds+ is quite unreasonable. Prices increase overtime, yes, there are a few occasions where it does jump over night due to items becoming unattainable and we the traders do shape the values of items. But, they should not be determined by a group of people who do not provide actual facts and mainly seek to make a profit.
My opinion is(beware, as I've stated on an earlier comment before, I do not own either of these hats from the Christmas event), that whether or not the spreadsheet price will be left out, the B.M.O.C. and/or Ebenezer will be hoarded for sure.
ReplyDeleteI do support the fact of the admin that the price is what people want to pay, but in this case, it's more about what people are actually going to pay.
I mean yeah, almost everybody buys one of either hats(BMOC/Ebenezer I mean with that) wants them for the old spreadsheet price, let's take the 5-6 keys of the BMOC for example.
That guy wants the BMOC for 5-6 keys, gets a random dude on a trade server, asks him for the BMOC, the BMOC-owner will basically be like:
"You want one for 5 or 6 keys? Well, tough tits, you ain't be gettin' one for that...".
That's how it is in my eyes.
And about the looks... For me, a Max Head, BMOC, Ebenezer, HOUWAR, Voodoo Juju, Spine Chilling Skull and Summer Hat look all the same to me. Plainly unfitting and ridiculous(by the fact that I've been playing TF2 since 2008, I find almost every hat in this game ridiculously overdone and horrible).
Bill's Hat?
Perfect. A Soldier's Beret. Seeing that it's an FPS game, where you shoot and kill, what soldiers normally do, I find this thing the best all-class hat you and/or I could ever imagine in this whole design concept of the game(You can judge my opinion however you like, since I own one myself, so meh). Flippin-floppin bunny ears, pompom/Santa hats, tentacle beasts and skullies won't change my mind, eh.
My idea would be a negotiation with the people who sell them incredibly high, in a civilized way, you know, like a peace council(JUST LIKE IN SKYRIM!). Could turn out quite interesting, I suppose. Unless they don't give up with this, then it's pointless(and then they probably FUS RO DAH you off a cliff or something, blimey).
(Sorry if the Skyrim part confused you, I've been addicted to this game lately <.>)
My opinion is that: promo item cant be worth more than game what for was given, or earbuds cant be worth more than real life earbuds.. just not right.
ReplyDeleteAbout b.m.o.c its good hat, but for christmas evening(not more), ebenezer its ugly not want comment it.
to Hybrid, and everyone,i like Bill's to, because hat for every day, its men's hat.
I would like to draw attention to the fact that since it became known that a group of scammers tried to artifically raise the price, another group of people tried to bring it down by undercharging for it (namely, 2 keys or so). Because of this price rise, many have bought Ebenezers and BMOCs to try and turn a profit (me included). Now, with the price falling faster than a penny down a well, what I believe will happen is tons of sad owners of Ebenezers and BMOCs will hoard the hats until they get a better price for their stuff. And it was mentioned somewhere above that russian script kiddies hacked themselves thousands of them. So? If you underprice it, that'll cause the price to drop as they'll scrap them, and go after the next best thing. I would also like to point out that this economy is not exactly real, and not meant for making an actual monetary profit, even if some are. This means that what that group did isn't "illegal" in any way, although I myself would not agree to it at such a degree (buds or unusuals for ebenezer). My opinion is that the Ebenezer and BMOC should be priced at about 7-8 keys or so to give a chance to those who bought it for more to atleast cut their losses (imagine being scammed for 5 keys. Not nice, huh? It's also because these people are quite a lot), whilst still remaining affordable for others. Otherwise, I'd like to repeat, something like Hybrid mentioned could happen: None selling those hats unless people would pay 10 keys or whatever, and we'll have the same problem again at our hands, only this time it won't be one group that's caused it, it'll be a community. And so you don't think I'm biased, take a look at Spectre's comment a bit above. He doesn't talk like he has an Ebenezer or BMOC, and yet he doesn't rage: He views them as an investment, and is happy for the people that got one. Kudos to him / her. To recap: It's unfair to penalise players who viewed such hats as investments with major key losses, and it's also unfair to "rob" the ones that didn't view this as a legitimate opportunity (though I'm not very sure of the validity of the latter). Therefore, a price between the two extremes must be found, otherwise the problem will arise again, and as far as I can see, the prices will be forced to rise to where they were because of players refusing to sell for less.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesnt the spreadsheet have a high, low, and average (and/or median) price column?
ReplyDeleteSchmee: we have the price or range that we think reflects the best idea of average price. Highs and lows can be very divergent from the average and are not often useful.
ReplyDeleteIn my oppinion all this spreadsheet is a bad idea becouse it gives you, the admins too much power and control. I remember back when trading first came out, we traded items for what we liked and wanted ourselves. Now it's "Oh I dont like this but I want it anyway because it is "valuable". There is no value for hats or weapons, Its all created artificially.
ReplyDeleteBTW I want to talk about festives. Strange festives and regular festives comes from the same crate, that has VANISHED (cannot be uncrated anymore). So the items like the same unique as bills. You can still uncrate strange scattergun, strange rocket, becouse the crates exist, but not festives. Can anyone tell me reason why should I pay 25 keys for s.fmedigun and 1 refs for f. medigun?
I got infos from my frirnds that they are succesfully selling festives for keys. Market naturally corrects low-priced festives so there should be a correction on the priceheet. You need to be more flexible. Limited weapons cant be "0,66-1ref". It is disgraceful.
@Darkshadow
ReplyDeleteThe price of items is artificial so you cant artificially rise it or decrease it. Its only state of mind that some people accept becouse they see other people accepting it. This spreadsheet prentends to organize market life, but it cant be a bible. So I wouldnt be so fast calling some people scammers (and I dont see many people protesting if somebody sells something for cheap -you only scram when someone is overpricing).
I believe the current placement of the price, especially for ebenezers, doesn't reflect the items' true value... And none is willing to sell for that low. I'd suggest bumping the price by a few keys, since I've noticed that people sell ebenezers for 5 keys and over, and are unwilling to sell for less (me included). This may or may not cause an increase in price nonetheless, but I'd suggest (again) bumping the price, even by a key or so. The values I'd suggest is 8-9 for BMOC and 5-6 for Ebenezers, because I believe (for ebenezers atleast) that's the price most people bought them for, thus they'll have an initiative to sell.
ReplyDeleteAdmin: Is the price of the Earbuds useful?
ReplyDeleteBorg: everyone is entitled to their opinions, we respect yours but disagree. We've been doing this since trading came out so I'm not sure what you are referring to. There were, are and will continue to be other sources of pricing information and we encourage you to seek others out if you don't like ours. We take this very seriously and put many hours into making this the best it can be. The market fluctuates around prices higher and lower all the time and while we have some influence which we feel we act responsibly with, we don't control anything.
ReplyDeleteTo your suggestion regarding regular festive items, your logic is correct but that doesn't mean prices are higher because of that. We looked into them a little deeper and adjusted the prices, as a set the items tend to sell higher. Separately they sell for less (which is counter-intuitive but sets have premiums).
lvbubi: not sure what you are asking.
Darkshadow: we took an extra long look at what was going on with these items and are confident in the range of prices we relisted them at. Rarity does not determine price. Price comes from what people pay, and this is what we see right now.
ReplyDelete@Admin - I think we got a vicious circle problem here. Spreadsheet reflects how people trade AND they trade that way becouse spreadsheet tells them to.
ReplyDeleteAbout festives:
There is big unbalance between strange festives, regular festives and stranges.
For example - festive strange rocket =20keys, strange rocket = 3 keys, festive rocket= 1 ref.
Actually the value of strange festives differs (from 7 keys to 25 keys) on speadsheet while normal fesives are almost the same value.
There are people who buy festives in bulk for 1-2 rec. And I think they will set the price in near future as festives are highly limited weapons and the number of players increase.
Btw. I've bought a BMOC for OO Bills and I dont feel cheated or something.
ReplyDeleteI think it is a good price for this hat (like 8-12 keys) - it is a mediana, something in the middle. BMOC should be swappable with bills. Earbuds (20 keys) is too much for the moment, maybe it sould be corrected before Christmas.
Price comes from what people pay, and this is what we see right now.
ReplyDeletePeople started to pay 10-14 keys for a B.M.O.C remember? I don't own a B.M.O.C neither an Ebenezer but I think you guys weren't "prepared" for the price raise like you were with the Festives. If you know what I mean.
Personally I don't like what you guys are doing.
Admin: What if people don't pay? Just as a question, if Ebenezers doesn't sell because people demand more than what buyers are willing to pay, will the market price increase because of it or will you leave it the same because you'll have no data to work with?
ReplyDeletewhy there are so many guys interested in selling s holy mackerel 1:1 for ebenezer ?
ReplyDeletethey even add sweets O.o i think s holy mackerel is worth less than 4 keys now ...
Borg: again, you're entitiled to your opinion. If you saw what we saw in prices you would think differently. And I'll leave it at that. Festives there is a big difference in prices, but the range we now list is one we feel confident with. That's what people are paying.
ReplyDeleteSalam: it was a movement in price (and apparently by a group) that we hadn't seen, so in a sense we were not prepared for it. Best we can do, we've done. Took the price down, let the market figure it out and then once we really felt strongly about the price we put it back up.
Darkshadow: people are buying and selling these items now consistently in the range we have up. There was a stalemate we noticed for days after the whole price rise happened. For any item though, when there is a stalemate, that means buyers/sellers are too far apart and a change has to happen.
Ploba: we haven't seen that many of these offers/requests.